Comments for The Preacher http://thepreacher.cac2.net Fear God and keep His commandments; for this is the whole duty of man - Ecclesiastes 12:13 Tue, 14 Oct 2008 00:06:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 Comment on A question about the scriptural basis for free will by gymbrall http://thepreacher.cac2.net/2007/07/03/a-question-about-the-scriptural-basis-for-free-will/#comment-980 gymbrall Thu, 18 Sep 2008 04:25:46 +0000 http://thepreacher.cac2.net/2007/07/03/a-question-about-the-scriptural-basis-for-free-will/#comment-980 Dan, The references to us as vessels are God's words not mine. I do not question that man chooses. Scripture states over and over that man chooses, but it also states (very explicitly) that man chooses within the predetermined choices of God. This is what Paul is explaining to us in Romans 9. Man chooses, but God chose first. The problem that I have with "free will" is that people who believe in it say something to this effect: <i>Man has free will, therefore any verse that seems to suggest otherwise is completely wrong.</i> Whereas, when I read Scripture I say: <i>God says man chooses. God also says that he chose before the foundations of the world. If there is any contradiction here, it must lie within my understand of it.For if I am willing to dismiss the clear meaning of Romans 9, why should someone else not dismiss the clear meaning of John 3:16?</i> Dan,
The references to us as vessels are God’s words not mine. I do not question that man chooses. Scripture states over and over that man chooses, but it also states (very explicitly) that man chooses within the predetermined choices of God. This is what Paul is explaining to us in Romans 9. Man chooses, but God chose first. The problem that I have with “free will” is that people who believe in it say something to this effect: Man has free will, therefore any verse that seems to suggest otherwise is completely wrong. Whereas, when I read Scripture I say: God says man chooses. God also says that he chose before the foundations of the world. If there is any contradiction here, it must lie within my understand of it.For if I am willing to dismiss the clear meaning of Romans 9, why should someone else not dismiss the clear meaning of John 3:16?

]]> Comment on A question about the scriptural basis for free will by Dan http://thepreacher.cac2.net/2007/07/03/a-question-about-the-scriptural-basis-for-free-will/#comment-979 Dan Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:41:41 +0000 http://thepreacher.cac2.net/2007/07/03/a-question-about-the-scriptural-basis-for-free-will/#comment-979 Joshua 24: 14-15 Matthew 7:13 Deut 30:15-20 Additionally, how we think of God becomes drastically different if we think of ourselves as simply 'vessels'. If that was the case, that God was making a perfect pleasure, he would simply speak it into existence. There is, however, pleasure more perfect than such a situation. There is the free choice pleasure. For what is better, a gift from a friend because he is forced, or because he freely chooses too give it to you? I believe the later is far greater. Joshua 24: 14-15
Matthew 7:13
Deut 30:15-20

Additionally, how we think of God becomes drastically different if we think of ourselves as simply ‘vessels’. If that was the case, that God was making a perfect pleasure, he would simply speak it into existence. There is, however, pleasure more perfect than such a situation. There is the free choice pleasure. For what is better, a gift from a friend because he is forced, or because he freely chooses too give it to you? I believe the later is far greater.

]]> Comment on Piper, Driscoll, Contextualization, Postmodernism by gymbrall http://thepreacher.cac2.net/2006/10/18/piper-driscoll-contextualization-postmodernism/#comment-978 gymbrall Thu, 04 Sep 2008 01:33:40 +0000 http://thepreacher.cac2.net/?p=10#comment-978 "Listening closer might be warranted." Leave something of substance and I'll listen. Rome went through the modern and then the postmodern stages, more than once depending on when and where you look. These cultural patterns, they are not new. “Listening closer might be warranted.”

Leave something of substance and I’ll listen. Rome went through the modern and then the postmodern stages, more than once depending on when and where you look. These cultural patterns, they are not new.

]]> Comment on Piper, Driscoll, Contextualization, Postmodernism by Matt Stone http://thepreacher.cac2.net/2006/10/18/piper-driscoll-contextualization-postmodernism/#comment-977 Matt Stone Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:25:57 +0000 http://thepreacher.cac2.net/?p=10#comment-977 "Jesus Christ lived in a Postmodern world, so did Paul." Huh? Methinks you're getting confused between premodernism and postmodernism and prechristian and postchristian. To adapt an analogy from C S Lewis, its like talking about marriage to a virgin and a divorcee, neither of them are married ... but that doesn't mean they're the same. Listening closer might be warranted. “Jesus Christ lived in a Postmodern world, so did Paul.”

Huh?

Methinks you’re getting confused between premodernism and postmodernism and prechristian and postchristian. To adapt an analogy from C S Lewis, its like talking about marriage to a virgin and a divorcee, neither of them are married … but that doesn’t mean they’re the same. Listening closer might be warranted.

]]> Comment on A question about the scriptural basis for free will by Charles http://thepreacher.cac2.net/2007/07/03/a-question-about-the-scriptural-basis-for-free-will/#comment-976 Charles Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:26:41 +0000 http://thepreacher.cac2.net/2007/07/03/a-question-about-the-scriptural-basis-for-free-will/#comment-976 Chuck, Can I ask you to read through that very same passage you mention and notice what Paul is saying. Actually, you should go back to verse 9. Paul is teaching us about the doctrine of election, or as we would say it, the doctrine of how salvation is chosen (and who does the choosing). As he does this, he is also walking through the objections that we would raise as we come to understand God's purposes. Verses 9-13, he describes the choosing of Jacob over Esau. He makes is clear that God chose them before they were born so it would be clear that was not their works but the choosing of God that was supreme. He says that God loved Jacob and hated Esau. Then in verse 14, he raises the first objection/question that pops into most people's minds as they read this: "But doesn't that make God unrighteous? Isn't god being unfair?" No. says Paul, and he takes you back to Exodus and to the giving of the law when God says, I will show mercy to who I want to show mercy to and compassion to who I want to show compassion. Then he talks about Pharaoh and how God raised Pharaoh up and hardened his heart so that he could punish to God's own glory. Then in verse 19, Paul raises the next objection: "If God makes people the way that they are, how can he then find fault with them? For who can resist the will of God?" To which Paul says, "You have no place to question God. Can a clay vessel complain against the potter? Can clay question the one who shaped it? Doesn't the potter have absolute power over the clay to make over vessel for honor and another for destruction?" But notice, God does not call us toys for His amusement. He calls us vessel of wrath and vessels of mercy. His language is specific. He is not a whimsical God who is doing all of this for his child-like pleasure. He is making a thing, and we are part of it. He is creating something for His perfect pleasure. If we cannot wrap our minds around how our choice can be real when He has made us thus, the we must have faith. It has been sufficient for all other things, let it be sufficient for this as well. Chuck,
Can I ask you to read through that very same passage you mention and notice what Paul is saying. Actually, you should go back to verse 9.
Paul is teaching us about the doctrine of election, or as we would say it, the doctrine of how salvation is chosen (and who does the choosing). As he does this, he is also walking through the objections that we would raise as we come to understand God’s purposes.

Verses 9-13, he describes the choosing of Jacob over Esau. He makes is clear that God chose them before they were born so it would be clear that was not their works but the choosing of God that was supreme. He says that God loved Jacob and hated Esau.

Then in verse 14, he raises the first objection/question that pops into most people’s minds as they read this:

“But doesn’t that make God unrighteous? Isn’t god being unfair?”

No. says Paul, and he takes you back to Exodus and to the giving of the law when God says, I will show mercy to who I want to show mercy to and compassion to who I want to show compassion. Then he talks about Pharaoh and how God raised Pharaoh up and hardened his heart so that he could punish to God’s own glory.

Then in verse 19, Paul raises the next objection: “If God makes people the way that they are, how can he then find fault with them? For who can resist the will of God?”

To which Paul says, “You have no place to question God. Can a clay vessel complain against the potter? Can clay question the one who shaped it? Doesn’t the potter have absolute power over the clay to make over vessel for honor and another for destruction?”

But notice, God does not call us toys for His amusement. He calls us vessel of wrath and vessels of mercy. His language is specific. He is not a whimsical God who is doing all of this for his child-like pleasure. He is making a thing, and we are part of it. He is creating something for His perfect pleasure. If we cannot wrap our minds around how our choice can be real when He has made us thus, the we must have faith. It has been sufficient for all other things, let it be sufficient for this as well.

]]> Comment on You Have Misunderstood the Nature of the Law by Shannon http://thepreacher.cac2.net/2007/11/07/you-have-misunderstood-the-nature-of-the-law/#comment-973 Shannon Thu, 26 Jun 2008 05:21:36 +0000 http://thepreacher.cac2.net/2007/11/07/you-have-misunderstood-the-nature-of-the-law/#comment-973 We are justified once...when we accept the sacrifice and grace of the cross. We are sanctified daily through the Word of God to become more like Christ until the day He returns or He calls us home :) We are justified once…when we accept the sacrifice and grace of the cross. We are sanctified daily through the Word of God to become more like Christ until the day He returns or He calls us home :)

]]> Comment on A question about the scriptural basis for free will by Chuck http://thepreacher.cac2.net/2007/07/03/a-question-about-the-scriptural-basis-for-free-will/#comment-970 Chuck Tue, 17 Jun 2008 04:14:38 +0000 http://thepreacher.cac2.net/2007/07/03/a-question-about-the-scriptural-basis-for-free-will/#comment-970 While God knows how we will exercise our free will; he does not choose for us as such. For example, God knows that Bob refuses to accept Christ as his savior. God knew before Bob did that Bob would reject Christ. God would then likely be disappointed in Bob, but Bob has the will/choice to refuse Christ. I don't know that there needs to be one, two, or even twenty options to choose from when making a choice. It only matters that God knows our choice before we do without choosing for us. Here is one for you. Read Romans 9:18-23. If God chooses to pre-determine what or who we are or what we become. Then might we just be toys for his amusement or perhaps examples by which we make choices to emulate, or not? While God knows how we will exercise our free will; he does not choose for us as such. For example, God knows that Bob refuses to accept Christ as his savior. God knew before Bob did that Bob would reject Christ. God would then likely be disappointed in Bob, but Bob has the will/choice to refuse Christ. I don’t know that there needs to be one, two, or even twenty options to choose from when making a choice. It only matters that God knows our choice before we do without choosing for us.

Here is one for you. Read Romans 9:18-23. If God chooses to pre-determine what or who we are or what we become. Then might we just be toys for his amusement or perhaps examples by which we make choices to emulate, or not?

]]> Comment on Making Jehovah into a Lovesick Girl by Christian Blake http://thepreacher.cac2.net/2007/04/16/making-jehovah-into-a-lovesick-girl/#comment-595 Christian Blake Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:48:26 +0000 http://thepreacher.cac2.net/2007/04/16/making-jehovah-into-a-lovesick-girl/#comment-595 I laughed so much I nearly had stomach cramp. Thanks for the read. I laughed so much I nearly had stomach cramp. Thanks for the read.

]]> Comment on Searching for a Good Cause by gabbygirl http://thepreacher.cac2.net/2007/02/18/searching-for-a-good-cause/#comment-498 gabbygirl Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:42:39 +0000 http://thepreacher.cac2.net/2007/02/18/searching-for-a-good-cause/#comment-498 I see your above reference to Hephzibah House? Are you referring to HH in Indiana? (Ididn't want to click on the link and give them the extra penny), but if that is the facility you are referring to, I would urge you to visit www.formerhephzibahgirls.webs.com (and hopefully check out some of the links)! thanks for your time (You might have had me if it had actually been the Charles-Churchill-wants-to-buy-a-house charity)! :) I see your above reference to Hephzibah House? Are you referring to HH in Indiana? (Ididn’t want to click on the link and give them the extra penny), but if that is the facility you are referring to, I would urge you to visit http://www.formerhephzibahgirls.webs.com (and hopefully check out some of the links)!
thanks for your time
(You might have had me if it had actually been the Charles-Churchill-wants-to-buy-a-house charity)! :)

]]> Comment on Romans 9, the Awful and Terrible God, and Communion by R. Sherman http://thepreacher.cac2.net/2008/02/20/romans-9-the-awful-and-terrible-god-and-communion/#comment-967 R. Sherman Sun, 23 Mar 2008 16:03:52 +0000 http://thepreacher.cac2.net/2008/02/20/romans-9-the-awful-and-terrible-god-and-communion/#comment-967 Just popping in to wish you and yours a joyous Easter. Cheers. Just popping in to wish you and yours a joyous Easter.

Cheers.

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