Thanks for posting,
Charles

Thanks for posting,
Charles

Dearly Beloved Friend:
How are you? I just had to send you this letter to tell you how much I love you and care for you.
I saw you yesterday as you were walking with your friends. I waited all day, hoping you would walk and talk with me also.
As evening drew near, I gave you a sunset to close your day, and a cool breeze to rest you. Then I waited, but you never came. And yes, it hurt me, but I still love you because I am your friend.
I saw you fall asleep last night, and I longed to touch your brow, so I spilled moonlight upon your pillow and your face…
Again I waited, wanting to rush down so we could talk. I have so many gifts for you.
You awakened late this morning and rushed off for the day. My tears were in the rain.
Today you looked so sad, so alone. It makes my heart ache because I understand. My friends let me down and hurt me many times, but I love you. I try to tell you in the quiet green grass. I whisper it in the leaves and trees, and breathe it in the color of the flowers. I shout it to you in the mountain streams, and give the birds love songs to sing. I clothe you with warm sun shine and perfume the air. My love for you is deeper than the oceans and bigger than the biggest want or need you could ever have.
We will spend eternity in heaven. I know how hard it is on earth. I really know, because I was there, and I want to help you. My Father wants to help you, too. He’s that way, you know.
Just call me, ask me, talk to me. It is your decision… I have chosen you, and because of this I will wait…Because I love you.

Your Friend,
Jesus

Dearly Beloved Friend:
How are you? I just had to send you this letter to tell you how much I love you and care for you.
I saw you yesterday as you were walking with your friends. I waited all day, hoping you would walk and talk with me also.
As evening drew near, I gave you a sunset to close your day, and a cool breeze to rest you. Then I waited, but you never came. And yes, it hurt me, but I still love you because I am your friend.
I saw you fall asleep last night, and I longed to touch your brow, so I spilled moonlight upon your pillow and your face…
Again I waited, wanting to rush down so we could talk. I have so many gifts for you.
You awakened late this morning and rushed off for the day. My tears were in the rain.
Today you looked so sad, so alone. It makes my heart ache because I understand. My friends let me down and hurt me many times, but I love you. I try to tell you in the quiet green grass. I whisper it in the leaves and trees, and breathe it in the color of the flowers. I shout it to you in the mountain streams, and give the birds love songs to sing. I clothe you with warm sun shine and perfume the air. My love for you is deeper than the oceans and bigger than the biggest want or need you could ever have.
We will spend eternity in heaven. I know how hard it is on earth. I really know, because I was there, and I want to help you. My Father wants to help you, too. He’s that way, you know.
Just call me, ask me, talk to me. It is your decision… I have chosen you, and because of this I will wait…Because I love you.

Your Friend,
Jesus

Something that bothers me though, is that we make God human. He’s not.

This is true. However, we are made in God’s image, so we aren’t completely unlike him. And when God uses human images to describe himself, I don’t think we should discard the images just because they are “human.” God may not be human, but he has human-like traits. (Or rather, we have God-like traits.)

So making God into this image of desperate man who has no control over whether or not HIS creatures will come to Him seems absurd.

I am not well-versed in official Arminian theology, but no one I know who believes in free will holds that God has “no control” or that he’s “desperate.” He has the power; He has the sovereignty. He just allows us free will and doesn’t compel us. It’s not as if he’s “stuck,” but that doesn’t mean he controls everything.

Like my favorite Pastor says (Paul Washer) (forgive me, this is a paraphrase) “Jesus Christ owns the door, if He wants to open it, He will!”

Ok, but…where in the Bible do you get this? As Mark Cole pointed, out Rev. 3:20 says “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.” This is the OPPOSITE of opening the door of his own will, no? He waits for us to open it.

Charles:

The context with which God speaks to us is not always fully explained each time he speaks.

Point taken. But this is also true for those verses that emphasize God’s sovereignty, right? You said in your post that “If God is who He says He is, then it is He who does the choosing.” This is true (and biblical), but one needs context and elaboration to understand what this means and how it works. In the context of the rest of the Bible, I don’t think it can mean that God simply wills whatever he wills and everything falls into line. The Bible places entirely too much emphasis on human choice.

Did he know when and how He would act and when and how man would act? Did he know what knowledge Adam would start with and what the first thing he would see when he opened his eyes? Did he know how Adam would respond to what he experienced? Did God know what He Himself would do? And if He knew all these things, and still did them in precisely that way, did not He choose?

I get your point, but I still balk at the idea that people are “predestined,” per se. Predestination implies that our choices are not our own, that everything we do is predetermined. If this is so, then why does God spend so much time (apparently) trying to woo people and change their minds? It would be silly to do so if the choices were pre-made. They might be pre-known, but not pre-made. (And yes, I know…that distinction is problematic. *sigh*)

I will go read your previous post on freewill. Now I’m curious about the chess analogy.

Something that bothers me though, is that we make God human. He’s not.

This is true. However, we are made in God’s image, so we aren’t completely unlike him. And when God uses human images to describe himself, I don’t think we should discard the images just because they are “human.” God may not be human, but he has human-like traits. (Or rather, we have God-like traits.)

So making God into this image of desperate man who has no control over whether or not HIS creatures will come to Him seems absurd.

I am not well-versed in official Arminian theology, but no one I know who believes in free will holds that God has “no control” or that he’s “desperate.” He has the power; He has the sovereignty. He just allows us free will and doesn’t compel us. It’s not as if he’s “stuck,” but that doesn’t mean he controls everything.

Like my favorite Pastor says (Paul Washer) (forgive me, this is a paraphrase) “Jesus Christ owns the door, if He wants to open it, He will!”

Ok, but…where in the Bible do you get this? As Mark Cole pointed, out Rev. 3:20 says “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.” This is the OPPOSITE of opening the door of his own will, no? He waits for us to open it.

Charles:

The context with which God speaks to us is not always fully explained each time he speaks.

Point taken. But this is also true for those verses that emphasize God’s sovereignty, right? You said in your post that “If God is who He says He is, then it is He who does the choosing.” This is true (and biblical), but one needs context and elaboration to understand what this means and how it works. In the context of the rest of the Bible, I don’t think it can mean that God simply wills whatever he wills and everything falls into line. The Bible places entirely too much emphasis on human choice.
Did he know when and how He would act and when and how man would act? Did he know what knowledge Adam would start with and what the first thing he would see when he opened his eyes? Did he know how Adam would respond to what he experienced? Did God know what He Himself would do? And if He knew all these things, and still did them in precisely that way, did not He choose?

I get your point, but I still balk at the idea that people are “predestined,” per se. Predestination implies that our choices are not our own, that everything we do is predetermined. If this is so, then why does God spend so much time (apparently) trying to woo people and change their minds? It would be silly to do so if the choices were pre-made. They might be pre-known, but not pre-made. (And yes, I know…that distinction is problematic. *sigh*)

I will go read your previous post on freewill. Now I’m curious about the chess analogy.